Software > Software (16-/32-Bit)

TOS 1.04 und 1.62 verbessert

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1ST1:
Petari, you did great work, and if you offer your mod, you can do that. If people like, they buy it, depending on price. Selling it might legally be in grey region. Officially TOS is still copyrighted by ATARI (a company which has nothing to do anymore with the company which produced our beloved computers). On the others side this current company called ATARI doesn't care on these old computer products anymore, they only still porfit from old games. TOS is like abandoned, but that company never has release a statement on this, but many websides offer TOS ROMs and ATARI system diskettes for download without any trouble. On the other side your TOS versions are much more heavily modified than TOS for Thunder/Storm TT expansion (+IDE, +optimized mem support, +winx changes) whis is also offered here through the forum.

Hard to decide.

Four questions:
1. Would you also add your modifications also to EmuTOS?
2. Would you be able to fix some bugs in BigDOS (only binary available) "modern" FAT 16 driver by Rainer Seitel? (We have a discussion on this forum about these bugs, we tryed to contact the author, but no success) - or make completely new BIGDOS version which is compatible from TOS 1.00 to 4.04, 68000-68080?
3. Same filesystem modifications and Floppy image support for TOS 1.04, 2.06/3.06, 4.04?
4. Virtual Floppy image driver for standard TOS?
That would be great.

goetz @ 3rz:

--- Zitat von: 1ST1 am Mi 12.12.2018, 22:27:53 ---Four questions:
1. Would you also add your modifications also to EmuTOS?
2. Would you be able to fix some bugs in BigDOS (only binary available) "modern" FAT 16 driver by Rainer Seitel? (We have a discussion on this forum about these bugs, we tryed to contact the author, but no success) - or make completely new BIGDOS version which is compatible from TOS 1.00 to 4.04, 68000-68080?
3. Same filesystem modifications and Floppy image support for TOS 1.04, 2.06/3.06, 4.04?
4. Virtual Floppy image driver for standard TOS?
That would be great.

--- Ende Zitat ---

You forgot to add "Atari Microbox OS, full Linux/Win/FreeBSD/macOS&BeOS compatible. Doesn’t need to support Atari 2600 cartridges, if that’s additional work".

Petari:

--- Zitat von: 1ST1 am Mi 12.12.2018, 22:27:53 ---Petari, you did great work, and if you offer your mod, you can do that. If people like, they buy it, depending on price. Selling it might legally be in grey region. Officially TOS is still copyrighted by ATARI (a company which has nothing to do anymore with the company which produced our beloved computers). On the others side this current company called ATARI doesn't care on these old computer products anymore, they only still porfit from old games. TOS is like abandoned, but that company never has release a statement on this, but many websides offer TOS ROMs and ATARI system diskettes for download without any trouble. On the other side your TOS versions are much more heavily modified than TOS for Thunder/Storm TT expansion (+IDE, +optimized mem support, +winx changes) whis is also offered here through the forum.

Hard to decide.

Four questions:
1. Would you also add your modifications also to EmuTOS?
2. Would you be able to fix some bugs in BigDOS (only binary available) "modern" FAT 16 driver by Rainer Seitel? (We have a discussion on this forum about these bugs, we tryed to contact the author, but no success) - or make completely new BIGDOS version which is compatible from TOS 1.00 to 4.04, 68000-68080?
3. Same filesystem modifications and Floppy image support for TOS 1.04, 2.06/3.06, 4.04?
4. Virtual Floppy image driver for standard TOS?
That would be great.

--- Ende Zitat ---

As I know, TOS copyright is not anymore in hands of Atari, but sime German firm - maybe ASH ?
Not that it us much relevant. You are right that it is in grey region. But lot of it is. For instance how people gets this days new movies, new serial episodes. DL-ing them from Rapidgator, Openload (nice name, btw.). They are called File sharing services, and you may see there some copyright blah, forms to report illegal material (copyright infrigment) - but that's only pose. In reality, whole system works on base that they have no control about what people will upload there, and they take no responsibility. If someone claims copyright, they will remove it. But someone other will soon upload it again.
With this longer txt. I just wanted to show, that there are much bigger problems today than 30 years Atari TOS copyright. And $ billions are in question only in movie piracy.

1. No way that I deal with EmuTOS. It is pretty much different than TOS. And I'm not good C coder. I did everything in ASM.

2. Fixing bugs in BIgDOS ? No reason for it. And without it's C sources (surely was done in C) that would be enormous work.
Sorry, I have impression that you did not understand what my FAT16 improving means: it does practically same as BigDOS - direct access to BigDOS partitions - so those over 32 KB, But without using extra RAM, and even with lower RAM usage of hard disk driver than in case of TOS/DOS compatible partitions. TOS now can handle both - AHDI type and DOS type partitions over 32 KB, without any extra SW. You create 1GB FAT16 partitions in Windows, and TOS will be able to access it, even more effiecient than AHDI partitions.
In short: no need to fix BigDOS, no need to use it at all with improved TOS.

3, Same for TOS 1.04 ? I talk all time that TOS 1.04 is what is improved (together with 1.62)
2.06 - explained that there is special way to use it as combo with 1,04 or 1.62 GEMDOS part.
3.06, 4.04 - what us wrong with you people ? Want  that me spend next 2 years with this ?
Yes, that would need another min 1000 hours of work, Let's just stay for now at what is already done.
Those later TOS versions are pretty different than 1.xx .
4. Virtual floppy is not simple driver. There is already Floppy Image Runner for standard TOS versions.  Virtual floppy is much more advanced, needs less RAM, etc. But it must be in TOS ROM. No way that it work as driver.

I think that part of the problem is that I made some unusual solutions, and people think in traditional way. All this needs more time to understand.
Finally, this modded, improved TOS, especially of 1.04 is most similar to KAOS TOS - authors of it did same reassembling and/or recompiling of TOS 1,04 (only German v,) like me - so original code, what is not changed is not on same locations. Anyone seen KAOS patch for TOS 1.04 De ? Because I seen only binary (image) .

1ST1:
TOS is still in hands of Atari. No ASH, no Medusa, no one else than them has copyrights. Medusa has right to use it in Firebee and other clones, that's it. Maybe ATARI don't care about TOS, but we don't know. Look at Nintendo and Sony which fight against any website offering ROMs for their first consoles (NES, PS1), almost as old as TOS.

1. would you open specifications that others can implement it in EmuTOS?

2. BigDOS is more interesting for TT and Falcon, where memory usage is not that important. Your fixes would be welcome as BigDOS has some strange bugs. 

3. TT, M-STE & Falcon also can't run with TOS 1.62 but they also would profit from your changes. Sourcecode of TOS 2.06/3.06 is available.

Petari:
Considering talk about commercial distribution: I started new thread with intention to make it more clear, to get rid of off-topic and insinuating posts from known programmer. But that thread is locked, and admin wants that we talk all it in this thread. No problem for me, but I need to copy here what stays there in first post:

"
Ich werde antworten auf alle Fragen welche sind um geschriebte Versionen. 1.04i, 1.62i und ihre 'kombos' mit 2.06 . So, ja, Leute kann haben Desktop von 2.06 mit GEMDOS von 1.04/1.62 - und das ist beste bei mich - besser SW Kompatibilitat und best ST(E) Desktop .
Sogar mein TOS 1.04i ist Mega STE kompatibel. Diese Projekt dauert schon zu viele Zeit. Gleich ganze Jahr."

Ich werde trotzdem das antworten zum Fragen von 1ST1 . Aber es ist letzte mal. Kein mehr Antworten zum off-topic Fragen.
<English mode on>
1. Why would I open specifikations for 'concurrent' EmuTOS . If they want to deal with features like imroved, BigDOS compatible FAT16 then they can do it without me. Specs are well known. Furthermore, I think that in later versions of EmuTOS it is already done. But I don't know exact parameters. Other things, like Virtual Floppy, Statesaves  are very own ideas and pure ASM code.
But main thing is that EmuTOS team will not deal with it. Or anyone other. At least not for some time.
Later, maybe year or more later, if people find that what I did is useful things can change, and someone will want to work on it.  Then I can give detailed specs. Will see what will future bring to us.

2. This has nothing with TT and Falcon. I talk all time about TOS versions for ST and STE.
If you really want that I deal with TOS versions for  them, please motivate me. Yes, I can do it, in some 1000 ++ hours of work. In other words, do something that what is currently available, what is done sells better.
I will not deal ever with fixing program BigDOS. What I made is much better: no more need for BigDOS.
If want same on TT and Falcon, why not using MagiC for instance ? For other possibilities - look above. Or talk with some C coder, who can mod C sources for real DOS compatible FAT16 in 2.06/3.06. 4.06 still not solvable that way (unless sources are available).
I even started thread in exxos forum about it:
https://www.exxoshost.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=929
It's just ceased in July.

3. Actually Mega STE can run with my modded TOS 1.62, and even with impr. 1.04 so look this:
"Sogar mein TOS 1.04i ist Mega STE kompatibel. "

Sourcecode of 2.06 and 3.06 is still under copyright, isn't ?
And I do all in ASM. I don't like C, not good with it. Atari ST is old computer, and TOS would be much better if they'd decide to do complete TOS in ASM. Then it would be shorter, and they would not need to bother with Line-F emulation in TOS 1.00-1.04 , what was implemented to save some 6 KB space, and TOS can fit in 192 KB. Not to mention better speed for instance.
And who is who made complete OS for Atari ST and followers in ASM - MagiC team  :)
That's nice SW, and I was involved in translating latest version in English (older ones had problems on Falcons with IDE disks). But I really did not use it seriously. I'm good with old single tasking TOS. 8 MHz machine is not really for multitasking. I like that it work fast, boot fast. And SW has big influence in speed too.

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